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Arizona 360: Nogales Concertina Wire, Fundraising for Border Wall, Immigrant Crime Rates

Arizona 360: Nogales Concertina Wire, Fundraising for Border Wall, Immigrant Crime Rates


THE BORDER. A CITY’S CONCERNS.>>ANYBODY CAN REALLY GET IN THERE. IT’S NOT VERY WELL PROTECTED.>>THE REASONS FOR ORDERING RAZOR WIRE IN SOME COMMUNITIES.>>THIS IS FOR ANYTHING THAT’S ATTEMPTING TO CROSS THE BORDER EVEN.>>PLUS, HEARING THE PERSONAL CALLS FOR TOUGHER IMMIGRATION LAWS.>>COME TO THE CEMETERY WITH ME. AND TELL ME THAT THIS IS A MANUFACTURED CRISIS.>>>HELLO AND WELCOME TO ARIZONA 360. I’M LORRAINE RIVERA. THANKS FOR JOINING US. BEFORE PRESIDENT TRUMP DECLARED A NATIONAL EMERGENCY AT THE BORDER, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TOOK STEPS TO FORTIFY BARRIERS ALONG THE ARIZONA/MEXICO BORDER. THAT INCLUDED INSTALLING WIRE ALONG THE TOP OF FENCING IN NOGALES LAST FALL. WITHIN THE LAST MONTH, THE MILITARY ADDED ADDITIONAL ROWS THAT REACHED THE GROUND IN SOME SECTIONS. CITY LEADERS CONDEMNED THE MOVE AND THREATENED TO SUE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO GET IT REMOVED. THIS WEEK, WE HEARD SOME OF THOSE CONCERNS FIRSTHAND FROM DEPUTY CITY MANAGER JOHN KISSINGER.>>I’M CONCERNED ABOUT IT. I’M VERY WORRIED THAT SOME SMALL CHILD, OR UNEXPECTED PERSON COULD WALK INTO THAT WIRE AND GET TANGLED UP AND GET CUT UP. AND I’VE SEEN THE EFFECTS OF CONCERTINA WIRE ON A PERSON AND IT IS NOT PRETTY. IT IS PRETTY NASTY.>>THIS IS FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PROPERTY, THOUGH, AND IT’S PRETTY WELL MARKED. ISN’T THAT ENOUGH TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT OF IT?>>IT’S ABSOLUTELY MARKED. YOU WILL SEE THERE ARE SIGNS ON HERE SAYING NOT TO ENTER. BUT IT’S NOT VERY WELL PROTECTED. THERE IS ABOUT A FOUR FOOT GAP THERE. AND I’M WORRIED ABOUT A CHILD, YOU KNOW, A TODDLER THAT GETS OUT OF A MOM’S CAR AND GOES RUNNING ACROSS THE STREET OR SOMETHING AND GOES TO CHASE SOMETHING AND GETTING IN THERE, AND THEY DON’T READ, THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND WHAT IT SAYS, NO TRESPASSING. YOU KNOW, ANYBODY COULD REALLY GET IN THERE. IT’S NOT VERY WELL PROTECTED.>>ARE THERE RULES IN PLACE OR ORDINANCES IN PLACE IN NOGALES THAT DON’T ALLOW FOR THIS TYPE OF WIRING IN OTHER AREAS?>>ABSOLUTELY. IN THE CITY OF NOGALES, YOU CANNOT USE CONCERTINA OR RAZOR WIRE ANYWHERE LOWER THAN SIX FEET. IT’S NOT ALLOWED IN RESIDENTIAL ZONES. IT’S ONLY ALLOWED IN COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL ZONES. AND ONLY FOR A FENCE THAT PROTECTS SOME TYPE OF STORAGE.>>THERE’S BEEN TUNNELS THAT WERE FOUND THAT GO RIGHT THROUGH LIKE UNDERNEATH, WHERE THAT VAN IS.>>BEFORE COMING DEPUTY CITY MANAGER, KISSINGER SPENT NEARLY 30 YEARS AS A NOGALES POLICE OFFICER. WE ASKED HIM TO REFLECT ON HIS TIME IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.>>THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU FACE AS A POLICE OFFICER, WAS IT RELATED TO THE BORDER?>>WELL, IT WAS. BECAUSE ONE OF THE CHALLENGES WE HAVE IS A CRIMINAL WAS ABLE TO CROSS THE BORDER, THEY WERE TYPICALLY SOMETIMES SCOTT FREE. YOU KNOW, AND THERE WAS A CHALLENGE HAVING TO WORK WITH MEXICAN LAW ENFORCEMENT TO WORK THROUGH, TO GET THOSE PEOPLE ARRESTED, AND ACCOUNTABLE, EITHER THERE OR ON THIS SIDE OF THE BOARDER.>>SO WHEN THIS STYLE OF FENCING WENT UP, THINGS CHANGED FOR YOU A BIT AS AN OFFICER.>>A LITTLE BIT. YOU DIDN’T SEE THE UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRATION AS MUCH. BUT THE CRIME OF SMUGGLING AND SMUGGLING PEOPLE, KEPT THE SAME, IT JUST PUTS IT OUT TO THE OUTSIDE. OUT, YOU KNOW, IN THE RURAL AREA.>>YOU’RE AN OFFICER TODAY. DID YOU SIGH, IF YOU WERE AN OFFICER TODAY WOULD YOU SEE THE VALUE OF A FORTIFIED FENCE LIKE THIS ONE?>>I COULD SEE THE VALUE OF IT BUT I WOULD BE HOPEFUL THAT SOMEBODY WOULD KEEP ME IN CHECK AND MAKING SURE I DIDN’T HARM ANYBODY IN DOING MY JOB.>>WE WILL CONFRONT THE NATIONAL SECURITY CRISIS ON OUR SOUTHERN BOARD ER.>>>WE ALSO GOT KISSINGER’S THOUGHTS ON THE PRESIDENT’S NATIONAL EMERGENCY DECLARATION AT THE BORDER AND WHAT ISSUES ARE MORE PRESSING.>>THIS DOESN’T REPRESENT A NATIONAL EMERGENCY TO ME. BUT I’LL TELL YOU WHAT DOES. JUST UP THE STREET HERE, THERE IS A GREAT BIG SEWER PIPE THAT BRINGS OVER ABOUT 15 MILLION GALLONS OF RAW SEWAGE EVERY DAY FROM MEXICO, INTO THE UNITED STATES. THAT GOES UNCHECKED. FOR FLOATING OF DRUGS IN IT. CHEMICALS THAT GO IN IT. NOT TO MENTION THE WASH THAT’S RIGHT NEXT TO IT, THAT BRINGS UNCONTROLLED FLOOD WATERS INTO THE UNITED STATES. TO ME, THAT’S MORE OF A NATIONAL EMERGENCY. THAT WOULD AFFECT OUR CITIZENS HERE IN NOGALES. AND CITIZENS UP THE SANTA CRUZ RIVER, ALL THE WAY UP TO TUCSON, WOULD BE MORE AFFECTED BY WHAT’S GOING ON THERE, THAN I BELIEVE THE CONCERTINA WIRE ON THE WALL.>>ARE THERE ANY POSITIVES TO THIS? YOU HAVE MILITARY IN TOWN, INCREASED LAW ENFORCEMENT, THAT DOES PROVIDE AN ECONOMIC BENEFIT, DOESN’T IT?>>WELL, IT DOES, A LITTLE BIT, AND WE’RE VERY GRATEFUL FOR IT, BUT YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT 60% OF OUR SALES TAX REVENUE, WHICH WE LIVE AND DIE ON, HERE IN THE CITY OF NOGALES, COMES FROM PEOPLE WHO CROSS THAT BORDER TO DO SHOPPING HERE.>>BACK IN NOVEMBER, WHEN THE FIRST STRANDS OF CONCERTINA WIRING WENT UP CITY OFFICIALS WORRIED IT WOULD DISCOURAGE SHOPPERS FROM MEXICO A STUDY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF ARIZONA COLLEGE OF MANAGEMENT FOUND THAT IN 2007, SPENDING BY MEXICANS ACCOUNTED FOR NEARLY HALF OF THE SALES TAX GENERATED IN SANTA CRUZ COUNTY. WHILE IN NOGALES, WE WANTED TO GET THE COMMUNITY’S THOUGHTS ON ADDED SECURITY MEASURES AT THE BORDER.>>Translator: FOR ME, THEY SHOULDN’T TREAT THE MEXICANS LIKE THIS. WE ARE LIKE ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING. AMERICAN, MEXICAN, SPANIARD, AND THEY SHOULD TRY TO TREAT THEM BETTER.>>IT IS VERY DANGEROUS. BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE COME FROM MEXICO, THEY JUMP. IT DOESN’T MATTER TO THEM. AND THEY FALL, AND IT IS VERY DANGEROUS.>>SOME PEOPLE VISITING THE BORDER FOR THE FIRST TIME SHARE THEIR INITIAL IMPRESSIONS. LIKE TEN-YEAR-OLD TWINS LIAM AND PERRY WILLOW SPEARS.>>BIG.>>I HAD NO IDEA THAT THERE WAS RAZOR WIRE ON IT.>>THE TWO TRAVELLED FROM MINNESOTA WITH THEIR MOTHER.>>SO WE CAME HERE TO SEE THE WALL, BECAUSE THE KIDS, THE KIDS, IT’S HARD SOMETIMES TO UNDERSTAND HOW THIS, THE WALL IS DIVIDING PEOPLE AND DIVIDING COMMUNITIES.>>WE ARE LOOKING FOR THE POSITIVE ABOUT IT.>>IT WAS ACTUALLY THEIR FIRST TIME AT THE BORDER VISITING FRIEND WHO RECENTLY MOVED HERE FROM THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST.>>I THINK IT IS FINE. I THINK WE NEED ONE. I REALLY DO.>>FOR ME, IT REMINDS ME OF THE WALL IN EAST BERLIN. YOU KNOW –>>YOU’RE GERMAN?>>I’M GERMAN ORIGINALLY. AND TO SEE THAT, IT REMINDS ME OF HOW THE EASTERN BLOC COUNTRY USED IT AS A WAY TO KEEP PEOPLE OUT.>>NOGALES IS ONE OF AT LEAST THREE BORDER COMMUNITIES IN ARIZONA WITH THE WIRE AND THE OFFICER IN CHARGE OF THE NOGALES STATION EXPLAINED MORE ABOUT THE DECISION-MAKING PROGRESS.>>WE INITIALLY TARGETED OUR WIRE DEPLOYMENT IN THE POINTS OF ENTRY AND THE AREAS THAT TRADITIONALLY HAVE BEEN VERY ACTIVE AREAS, AND SO WHEN WE DEPLOYED THE CONCERTLESS INA WIRE, WE IMMEDIATELY SAW A LITTLE REDUCTION IN ACTIVITY AND THEN WE SAW PEOPLE CUTTING THE CONCERTINA WIRE, SO FROM THE TIME IT WAS IN PLACE TO CURRENTLY IN NOGALES, WE’VE HAD 100 ATTEMPTS TO CUT OR BREACH THE CONCERTINA WIRE IN NOGALES. SO WE UNDERSTAND THAT IF THEY’RE CUTTING IT, THEY WANT TO COME ACROSS. AND IT IS IMPEDING THEM TO SOME LEVEL.>>SO THEN PERHAPS THE THEORY IS IF THEY CUT THE TOP TWO, THEN AT LEAST THE OTHER ONES REMAIN IN PLACE?>>THAT IS WHY WE PUT THE ENHANCED LEVEL OF CONCERTINA WIRE OUT THERE, BECAUSE THE TWO WAS NOT PROVIDING US THE CONSISTENT IMPEDENCE. THEY WERE CUTTING IT. CROSSING. AND SO THE EXTRA LAYERS OF CONCERT SLS CONCERTINA WIRE ACTS AS A DETERRENT. SINCE THE LAYER, WE HAD ONLY ONE ATTEMPTED BREACH OF THOSE AREAS.>>THERE ARE SOME AREAS THAT LOOK LIKE THEY’RE MORE FORTIFIED WITH WIRING THAN OTHERS IN THE NOGALES AREA. IS THERE A REASON FOR IT? PERHAPS THAT IT IS MORE IN AN URBAN COMMUNITY AS OPPOSED TO RURAL?>>ABSOLUTELY. SO WHEN WE LOOKED AT HOW WE WERE GOING TO DEPLOY THE CONCERTINA WIRE, WE LOOKED AT STRATEGY OVERALL AND FIRST IS DOMAIN AWARENESS. DO WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON IN OUR AREA. THE SECOND THING THAT WE LOOK AT IS IMPEDENCE AN DENIAL. FOLLOWED BY ACCESS AND MOBILITY. AND FINALLY, BY HAVING MISSION READINESS, ARE AGENTS READY TO GO WHERE WE’RE GOING INTO. AND SPECIFICALLY WITH THE IMPEDENCE AND DENIAL PORTION OF THIS IN CONCERTINA WIRE, WE LOOKED AT PLACES WHERE WE NEED TO HAVE IMPEDENCE. WE NEED TO HAVE TIME FOR OUR AGENTS TO BE ABLE TO REACT. TO ATTEMPTED ILLEGAL ENTRY.>>IS THIS REALLY DIRECTED TOWARD ASYLUM SEEKERS OR JUST IN GENERAL, THE TRADITIONAL CROSSES THAT YOU’VE SEEN IN THAT REGION?>>THIS IS ANYONE ATTEMPTING TO CROSS THE BORDER ILLEGALLY.>>WHO ULTIMATELY MAKES THAT CALL? IS THIS A SECTOR DECISION? A STATION? WE HAVE BEEN TO OTHER AREAS OF THE BORDER WHERE WE DON’T SEE THE SAME LEVEL OF WIRING.>>SO WE MADE THE DECISION AT THE STATION THAT WE NEEDED CONCERTINA WIRE TO FORTIFY THE DOWNTOWN AREA OF NOGALES. AGAIN, TO DETER ILLEGAL ACTIVITY IN DOWNTOWN. AND SO WE MADE THAT REQUEST TWLU OUR , THROUGH OUR CHAIN OF COMMAND AND IT WENT THROUGH BORDER CONTROL IN WASHINGTON, D.C.>>HAVE YOU HAD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT COMMUNITY LEADERS ABOUT IT, WITH THE OPTICS OF IT?>>ABSOLUTELY. WE BEGAN MEETING WITH THE COMMUNITY IN MID NOVEMBER. WE WILL BE MEETING WITH THE CHIEF OF POLICE. THE SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT. THE EMERGENCY RESPONDERS FOR THE CITY OF NOGALES. AS WELL AS THE SANTA CRUZ COUNTY. ALL OF OUR FEDERAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT PARTNERS AS WELL. WE HAD SEVERAL MEETINGS WITH THEM. IN NOGALES, RECENTLY, WE HAD A MEETING WITH THE MAYOR OF NOGALES. AS A MATTER OF FACT, LAST NIGHT, WE HAD OUR QUARTERLY CAB MEETING WHICH IS A CITIZENING ADVISORY BOARD IN NOGALES, WHICH IS A PARTNERSHIP OF COMMUNITY MEMBERS GOING BACK ABOUT 30 YEARS IN NOGALES.>>WHAT IS THE COMMUNITY, OR WHAT IS YOUR COMMUNITY ADVISORY BOARD TELLING YOU ABOUT THE AESTHETICS OF THE WIRE?>>SO THEY DO QUESTION THE AESTHETICS ABOUT IT, BUT THEY UNDERSTAND THE VALUE HA IT BRINGS AND WE’VE HAD THE SAME CONCERNS AS WE’VE GONE THROUGH EVOLUTIONS IN FENCING. THOSE OPPOSITION TO THE BOLARD FENCING INITIALLY, BUT THAT HAS CHANGED THE DYNAMICS IN NOGALES SIGNIFICANTLY. AND EVERYWHERE ELSE THAT WE’VE PUT THAT BOLARD TYPE FENCING. AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT ULTIMATELY, WE HAVE TO WEIGH WHAT’S MOST IMPORTANT IN OUR ABILITY TO SECURE THE UNITED STATES BORDER, IS THE FOREFRONT OF WHAT WE NEED TO DO. AND SO WHEN WE DEPLOY THIS CONCERTINA WIRE IN NOGALES, WE LOOKED AT AREAS WHERE THE PUBLIC DIDN’T HAVE IMMEDIATE ACCESS, AND ALSO WHERE THE PUBLIC COULD HAVE ACCESS, WE PUT UP SOME SAFETY PEDESTRIAN FENCING, SO THEY COULDN’T BECOME ENTANGLED IN THE CONCERTINA WIRE.>>IF THERE IS ANY AMOUNT OF PUSHBACK THAT YOU GET FROM THE CITY THAT WOULD LEAD YOU GUYS TO PERHAPS EVALUATE THE CONCERTINA WIRE PLACEMENT DIFFERENTLY?>>SO WE PARTNER CLOSELY WITH THE CITY, WITH THE COUNTY, WE’VE ALWAYS HAD A WONDERFUL RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM. AND WE DO TAKE THEIR FEEDBACK AND CONCERNS INTO CONDITION. WE ALSO HAVE TO TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION OUR MISSION, IN THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT.>>LET’S SAY THE NUMBER OF ASYLUM SEEKERS BEGINS TO DECLINE, IS IT POSSIBLE THE WIRING COULD COME DOWN? OR GIVEN NOGALES’ HISTORY, IT WILL LIKELY ALWAYS REMAIN?>>THERE IS NO PLANS IMMEDIATELY TO TAKE DOWN THE CONCERTINA WIRE, BUT WE’RE ALWAYS EVALUATING THE ENVIRONMENT AND AS THINGS CHANGE, WE ADAPT TO THAT.>>OKAY. THANK YOU.>>THANK YOU.>>>FOLLOWING PRESIDENT TRUMP’S EMERGENCY DECLARATION AT THE BORDER IS CURRENTLY UNCLEAR. CURRENTLY MORE THAN A DOZEN STATES PLAN TO CHALLENGE IT IN COURT. EARLIER THIS MONTH A GROUP TRYING TO FUNDRAISE FOR A WALL ON PRIVATE LAND MADE IT TO SOUTHERN ARIZONA.>>I’M A CITIZEN. I’M NOTHING MORE THAN A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES. I FEEL DEEPLY INVESTED IN THIS COUNTRY.>>THE “WE BUILD THE WALL” ORGANIZE HELD A TOWN HALL HOSTED BY THE QUAIL CREEK REPUBLICANS, AFTER A GO FUND ME CAMPAIGN FAILED TO RAISE A BILLION FOR ITS CAUSE IN TIME, THE GROUP BECAME A NONPROFIT TO CONTINUE COLLECTING DONATIONS. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TOWN HALL, WE SPOKE TO THE FOUNDER BRIAN COALFAGE ABOUT WHY HE IS TAKING ON THE INITIATIVE.>>I WAS FED UP AND I DIDN’T THINK IT WOULD EVOLVE THAT FIRST AND I WAS FED UP THE WAY WE WERE GOING WITH THE GOVERNMENT AND THE WAY THE POLITICIANS WERE HANDLING AND I THOUGHT MAYBE I COULD HAVE A CHANCE TO INFLUENCE SOMETHING AND HAVE AN IMPACT, AND I GUESS IT WAS JUST REALLY GOOD TIMING. AND IT TOOK OFF.>>IT MAY SEEM LIKE A LOFTY GOAL, $1 BILLION, BUT A FEW MONTHS IN, YOU WERE AT, WHAT, THAT MADE YOU THINK, YOU KNOW, WHAT, THIS IS DOABLE. THIS IS MANAGEABLE.>>YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE RAISED $18 MILLION BEFORE CHRISTMAS IN ONE WEEK. THAT SHOWS YOU THE LEVEL OF FUNDRAISING THAT WE CAN ACHIEVE. IT SLOWED DOWN A LITTLE BIT. MOW WE HAVE PRIVATE DONATIONS, AND WE’RE SET UP AS A CORPORATION, A NONPROFIT, AND YEAH, I THINK ONCE WE START, YOU KNOW, SHOWING PEOPLE THAT WE ARE SERIOUS, AND WE’RE GOING TO BREAK GROUND, AND ACTUALLY START BUILDING, IT IS GOING TO RAMP RIGHT BACK UP AGAIN.>>WHAT DOES THE WALL LOOK LIKE? WHERE DOES IT GO? WHO BUILD IT? GIVE US SOME IDEA WHAT YOU HOPE COMES OUT OF THIS.>>THE WALL WILL PRETTY MUCH LOOK LIKE WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS BUILDING NOW. WE MIGHT HAVE LITTLE MODIFICATIONS TO MAKE IT BETTER, TO MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT AND COST EFFICIENT. YOU KNOW, WE’RE JUST, WE ARE GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE WITH THE MONEY. WE WILL HIRE OUT CONTRACTORS TO GO ON THESE PRIVATE PROPERTIES, ON THE PRIVATE PROPERTY AND BUILD IT. AND WE’LL HANDLE ALL OF THE LOGISTICS OF IT FOR THE PROPERTY OWNER. AND IT IS GOING TO BE VERY SIMPLE. IT IS LIKE THAT PROPERTY OWNER, JUST WANTING TO BUILD A FENCE.>>FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH YOUR STORY, WHAT MADE YOU QUALIFIED TO KIND OF LEAD THIS CHARGE?>>I DON’T THINK IT TAKES ANYONE REALLY QUALIFIED TO LEAD THE CHARGE. WHAT MAKES US AS A UNIT ABLE TO DO THIS IS OUR TEAM. WE’RE A TEAM OF PEOPLE. WE HAVE THE LEADING EXPERTS IN ALL DIFFERENT CAREER FIELDS. ON OUR TEAM. I’M THE FACE OF THIS THING. AND I THINK PEOPLE ARE GRAVITATED TOWARD ME AS THE FACE OF IT BECAUSE MAYBE, BECAUSE I LOST, I’M OUT THERE DOING THIS AND MAYBE THEY FEEL IT IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE OF WHAT I’VE GIVEN. THAT IS JUST MY ASPECT. AND THEN WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE CHRIS COBACK, HE IS AN EXPERT IN BORDER SECURITY IMMIGRATION. WE HAVE PEOPLE LIKE ERIC TRENT, STEVE BANNON, THE POLITICAL PEOPLE, AND THEY’RE ALSO EXPERTS IN THEIR FIELD. WE HAVE CONSTRUCTION GUYS. JOHN MORAN. ONE OF THE BIGGEST CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS IN THE UNITED STATES. SO I THINK AS A TEAM, AS A UNIT, WE ARE THE MOST CAPABLE, PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST CAPABLE IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW TO TAKE ON THIS PROJECT AND BUILD A WALL.>>HOW ARE YOU MEASURING SUCCESS?>>WELL, I THINK WHEN WE FIRST BREAK GROUND AND START MOVING DIRT, THAT’S GOING TO BE THE FIRST CHECK MARK, WE’RE GETTING IT DONE. AND ONCE WE GET THAT FIRST MILE UP, ANOTHER CHECK MARK. WE’RE PROTECTING THAT COMMUNITY. AND START DOING MORE MILES AND MORE MILES AND MORE MILES AND START FUNDRAISING, AND CONTINUE IN THIS, AND GETTING THE COMMUNITY INVOLVED, AND GETTING THEM, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THEIR WALL, IT IS THE PEOPLE’S WALL, AND HAVES ALL, DOING ALL OF THESE THINGS, AND DOING THESE MILESTONES, THAT’S WHAT SUCCESS WILL BE MEASURED OFF OF. WE WILL BE SAVING LIVES. PROTECTING COMMUNITIES. BRICKING UP PROPERTY VALUES ALONG THE BORDER AND THAT’S THE SUCCESS OF THIS, SAVING LIVES.>>LET’S GET THIS WALL BUILT.>>AMONG THE VOICES FEATURED AT THE SAME TOWN HALL WERE THOSE OF TWO ARIZONANS KNOWN AS ANGEL PARENTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE CHILDREN KILLED BY UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS. MARY AN MENDOSA’S SON WAS KILLED IN 2014, BRANDON MENDOSA, A MESA POLICE OFFICER WAS COMING HOME FROM HIS SHIFT WHEN A WRONG WAY DRIVER CRASHED INTO HIS CAR KILLING THEM BOTH. THE DRIVER WAS DRUNK AND IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY. AND HE ALSO HAD A CRIMINAL HISTORY. SINCE THEN, MARIANNE HAS BECOME OUTSPOKEN ABOUT STRICTER IMMIGRATION LAWS SHE BELIEVES COULD HAVE PREVENTED HER SON’S DEATH.>>MARIANNE, WOULD YOU BEGIN BY TELLING ME WHAT THE LAST FOUR AND A HALF, FIVE YEARS HAVE BEEN LIKE FOR YOU?>>IT IS NOTHING THAT I EVER EXPECTED IN MY LIFE TO BE LIKE AT THIS TIME. I MEAN THE LOSS OF A CHILD IS A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY TO ENDURE IN ITSELF. BUT THEN TO FIND OUT THAT IT WAS AT THE HANDS OF AN ILLEGAL ALIEN, YOU KNOW, WHO HAD COMMITTED CRIMES BEFORE, AND WAS LEGALLY IN OUR COUNTRY, THAT JUST, ILLEGALLY IN OUR COUNTRY, THAT JUST KIND OF SPURRED ME TO FIGHTING FOR MY SON’S MEMORY, AND REALLY TO TRY AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THIS COUNTRY, SO IT DOESN’T HAPPEN TO ANOTHER FAMILY.>>SINCE YOUR SON’S DEATH, IN MAY OF 2014, I’VE SEEN INTERVIEWS, READ INTERVIEWS WITH YOU, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BOTHERS YOU IS THE WAY POLITICIANS LABEL THIS AS A MANUFACTURED CRISIS.>>ABSOLUTELY. BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I’VE INVITED SOME OF THE POLITICIANS WHO HAVE MADE THAT STATEMENT, COME TO THE CEMETERY WITH ME, AND TELL ME THAT THIS IS A MANUFACTURED CRISIS. I KNOW IT MAY ONLY BE ONE PERSON TO THEM, BUT I PERSONALLY KNOW PROBABLY 60 ANGEL FAMILIES THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED TO. I HAVE HEARD THEIR TRAGIC STORIES. AND LIKE I SAID, THIS EVENING, THIS IS A CRISIS CREATED BY OUR POLICIES BECAUSE OF THEIR UNWILLINGNESS TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT FOR DECADES. SO I BLAME ALL OF THEM, WHO HAVE FAILED TO STEP UP, AND ADMIT TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, THAT WE DO HAVE A CRISIS AT OUR SOUTHERN BORDER. AND IT’S NOT JUST FOR AMERICANS. IT IS THE ILLEGAL ALIENS CROSSING OUR BORDER. AND THE FAMILY UNITS, AND THE WOMEN AND THE CHILDREN, AND SOME OF THE MEN, IT’S A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS, AND WE HAVE TO BE WORRIED ABOUT EVERYBODY.>>YOU CAN’T PICK AND CHOOSE WHO YOU’RE FIGHTING FOR IT. IS EITHER FOR ALL OF HUMANITY, AND WHAT THEY’RE GOING THROUGH, OR IT IS NONE, SHUT YOUR MOUTH, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST CAN’T BE FOR ONE AND NOT THE DISCLOSURE AFTER YOUR SON’S DEATH, YOU LEARNED SOME THINGS ABOUT THE MAN WHO KILLED THEM AND WE SHOULD NOTE THAT INDIVIDUAL ALSO DIED. WHAT BOTHERED YOU THE MOST ABOUT HOW THIS ALL TRANSPIRED?>>BECAUSE HE HAD COMMITTED A CRIME, UP IN COLORADO, IN ADAMS COUNTY, AND HE DIDN’T SHOW UP FOR HIS COURT DATE, HE WAS RELEASED, YOU KNOW, DIDN’T SHOW UP FOR COURT, WHICH HE DIDN’T DO, AND THEN HE JUST WAS KIND OF, YOU KNOW, HERE AND GOING BACK TO MEXICO TO SEE HIS FAMILY AND ON ONE OF HIS TRIPS BACK HOME FROM SEEING HIS FAMILY IN 2002, HE WAS CAUGHT AT THE BORDER, TAKEN BACK UP TO ADAMS COUNTY TO FACE HIS CHARGES, AND THE JUDGE BASICALLY GAVE HIM A SLAP ON THE WRIST AND SAID YOU SHOULDN’T HAVE DONE THAT AND HAVE A NICE LIFE. IT WAS PROBABLY A WEEK TO A WEEK AND A HALF AFTER BRANDSEN WAS KILLED THAT I WAS MADE AWARE THAT IT WAS AN ILLEGAL ALIEN WHO HAD KILLED HIM. I OBVIOUSLY THINK THE MESA POLICE DEPARTMENT WAS SHIELDING ME FROM THAT, JUST KNOWING I HAD TO GRIEVE MY SON’S DEATH TO BEGIN WITH. BUT ONCE THAT HAPPENED, I WROTE A COUPLE OF LETTERS TO PRESIDENT OBAMA AT THE TIME WITH NO RESPONSE. AND I JUST KNEW THAT IT WAS AN UPHILL BATTLE. WE HAD POLITICIANS WHO DIDN’T CARE.>>BRANDON WOULD TURN 37 THIS MONTH. HOW DO YOU WANT THE AMERICAN PUBLIC TO REMEMBER HIM?>>HE WAS A VERY KIND, COMPASSIONATE, 32-YEAR-OLD MAN WHEN HE WAS KILLED. AND HE LIVED, I MEAN HE HAD PUT SO MUCH INTO HIS 32 YEARS, IT’S ALMOST LIKE SOMETIMES I THINK THAT SUBCONSCIOUSLY, HE KNEW SOMETHING WAS GOING TO HAPPEN TO HIM. I CAN HONESTLY SAY, PROBABLY EVERY WEEK, SINCE MY SON’S DEATH, SOMEBODY HAS REACHED OUT TO ME TO TELL ME AN ACT OF KINDNESS THAT MY SON HAD DONE FOR THEM. THEY’VE SEEN ME ON TV AND THEY SAID I JUST WANT TO TELL YOU WHAT YOUR SON HAD DONE FOR ME. SO IT JUST WARMS MY HEART TO KNOW THAT THIS IS THE KIND OF MAN THAT HE WAS. AND HE’S INSPIRED ME TO BECOME A BETTER PERSON.>>THE INSTITUTE, IT IS A THINK TANK BASICALLY.>>MARIANNE’S PAIN IS SHARED BY STEVE RONBACK, HIS SON GRANT WAS WORKING A SHIFT AT A CONVENIENCE STORE WHEN A CUSTOMER GOT ANGRY AND SHOT AND KILLED HIM. GRANT WAS 21 YEARS OLD. ACCORDING TO THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC, THE SUSPECT WAS FACING DEPORTATION AT THE TIME BUT WAS OUT ON BOND. OUR CONVERSATION BEGAN WITH HOW STEVE REMEMBERS HIS SON.>>GRANT WAS, EVEN FROM THE MINUTE HE WAS BORN, THE SMILE THAT WAS ON HIS FACE, IN THE PICTURES THAT YOU SEE THAT SMILE, HE WAS ABLE TO BRIGHTEN UP A ROOM, EVEN FROM THE DAY HE WAS BORN, WITHOUT SMILING. I MEAN IT WAS LIKE A MAGNET.>>AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT WHO SHOT YOUR SON, KILLED HIM, WHO HAD A CRIMINAL PART, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL SAY, YOU CAN’T PAINT THE SAME STROKE OVER EVERYBODY FROM A CERTAIN POPULATION OF PEOPLE. DOES THAT JIV WITH YOU?>>NO. I’M NOT TRYING TO PAINT ONE POPULATION OR ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE. ILLEGAL ALIEN IS NOT A RACE. ILLEGAL ALIEN IS A STATUS. OUR ALL ILLEGAL ALIENS BAD? NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. SOME ARE GREAT PEOPLE. IN FACT, I KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE GREAT PEOPLE. THEY’RE GOOD PEOPLE. THEY’RE GOOD-FEARING. FAMILY-LOVING PEOPLE. BUT THEN THERE ARE THOSE THAT ARE COMING HERE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF US, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR SOCIAL SERVICE SYSTEM, AND BASICALLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF OUR COUNTRY. AND THOSE ARE THE ONES I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.>>YOU’RE ON A CRUSADE TO BE SURE THAT GRANT’S DEATH WAS NOT IN VEIN. WHAT DO YOU HOPE COMES OF ALL OF THIS? HOW DO YOU HOPE HIS LIFE CHANGES THE WORLD?>>NUMBER ONE, THE AWARENESS. THE AWARENESS THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM. AND PART OF THAT AWARENESS IS THE DRUGS, IS THE SEX TRAFFICKING, IS THE HUMAN TRAFFICKING, THE OTHER PART OF IT IS THE SUSTAINABLE POPULATION OF OUR COUNTRY, AND THE FREEDOMS THAT WE HOLD DEAR. WE KEEP LETTING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN, FREE AND CLEAR, CRIME GOES UP, UNEMPLOYMENT GOES UP, BECAUSE THEY’RE GOING TO TAKE JOBS AND WORK CHEAPER, ALL OF THAT, IT IS A TRICK LE-DOWN EVERYTHING, IT IS TRICKLE-DOWN ECONOMICS. THE SECOND THING, IS THAT I DON’T NECESSARILY WANT GRANT REMEMBERED FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM. BUT SINCE IT DID HAPPEN, I’D LIKE HIS NAME AND HIM TO BE REMEMBERED AS THE FACE OF SOMETHING HISTORIC. AND SOMETHING GOOD. AND LET’S BE HONEST, IT IS PRETTY HISTORIC. WHEN YOU HAVE 300 AND SOME THOUSAND AMERICAN CITIZENS THAT ARE OPENING UP THEIR WALLETS TO DO WHAT OUR GOVERNMENT HASN’T BEEN ABLE TO DO. IT IS HISTORIC. IT’S EPIC. AND YOU KNOW, WHEN GRANT WAS A TEENAGER, HE ALWAYS SAID, YOU KNOW, I’M GOING TO BE FAMOUS SOME DAY. AND NEVER EXPECTED IT TO BE THIS WAY.>>ONE OF THE PRESIDENT’S ARGUMENTS FOR STEPPED-UP BORDER SECURITY IS THAT IMMIGRANTS WHO CROSS ILLEGALLY GO ON TO COMMIT DANGEROUS CRIMES IN THE U.S. YOU JUST HEARD FROM PARENTS WHERE THAT WAS THE CASE. HOWEVER, MANY REPORTS SHOW THAT IMMIGRANTS COMMIT VIOLENT CRIMES AT LOWER RATES THAN U.S. CITIZENS. ONE WIDELY SHARED REPORT FROM THE CATO INSTITUTE LOOKED AT DATA FROM THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY BASED ON POPULATION SIZES FROM ALL GROUPS IT FOUND IMMIGRANTS IN THE STATE LEGALLY AND ILLEGALLY WERE CONVICTED AT LESS THAN HALF THE RATE OF U.S. CITIZENS. THE AUTHOR OF THAT BOOK, ALEX, NUROSSA, JOINS US FROM WASHINGTON, D.C. VIA SKYPE TO EXPLAIN HIS FINDINGS. ALEX, IT APPEARS MOST OF YOUR RESEARCH COMES FROM DATA AND STATISTICS FROM THE TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY. IS THAT REALLY THE STATE THAT IS SERVING AS THE MODEL FOR THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION RIGHT NOW?>>ABSOLUTELY. TEXAS IS THE ONLY STATE UNITED STATES THAT TRACKS THE CONVICTION RATE OF THOSE ARRESTED. AND NO OTHER STATE TRACKS IT OR KEEPS THAT INFORMATION VERY LONG SO TEXAS IS REALLY THE MODEL FOR THIS. IT IS A PRETTY GOOD ONE. IT IS A BORDER STATE. IT IS THE STATE WITH THE SECOND LARGEST POPULATION OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS OF ANY STATE IN THE UNITED STATES. IT SHARES A BORDER WITH MEXICO. AND IT’S GOT A LONG HISTORY AND TRADITION OF PAR SHALLY ENFORCING CRIMINAL LAWS. SO THERE IS REALLY NO WAY, AND IT HAS NO SANCTUARY CITIES. NEVER HAS. SO THERE IS REALLY NO WAY AROUND IT. IT IS A VERY GOOD STATE TO STUDY THIS PHENOMENON.>>WE’VE HEARD PRESIDENT TRUMP SAY THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE ILLEGALLY COMMIT CRIMES AT HIGHER RATES THAN CITIZENS, FOR EXAMPLE. ANY OF YOUR RESEARCH SUPPORT THAT?>>I’VE SEEN NO RESEARCH THAT SUPPORTS THAT, EITHER I CONDUCTED MYSELF OR THAT HAS BEEN CONDUCTED IN THE PEER-REVIEWED ACADEMIC LITERATURE. AND WE TAKE A LOOK AND TRY TO ESTIMATE THE INCARCERATION RATES OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS NATIONWIDE, WE FIND THE INCARCERATION RATES ARE ABOUT HALF THAT OF NATIVE-BORN AMERICANS. AND IN PLACES LIKE TEXAS, WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAVE INFORMATION, ON THE NUMBER OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CONVICTED, WE FIND THAT THEY ARE CONVICTED OF CRIMES AT A MUCH LOWER RATE THAN NATE IVE-BORN AMERICANS. WE ALSO FOUND THAT IN STATES WITH A LOT OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, POLICE THERE SOLVE CRIMES AT ABOUT THE SAME RATE AS THEY DO IN STATES WITHOUT ANY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. SO IT IS NOT LIKE PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE ILLEGALLY, COMMITTING CRIMES, AND GOING BACK TO THEIR HOME STATE AT A VERY HIGH RATE.>>WHAT TYPES OF CRIMES ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, A PARENT WHOSE CHILD MAY HAVE BEEN KILLED BY AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT, THOUGH THE NUMBER MAY BE LOW WHEN IT COMES TO THAT PARTICULAR GROUP OF PEOPLE, THAT IS A SIGNIFICANT CRIME, HOMICIDE, OR RAPE.>>ABSOLUTELY. THESE CRIMES ARE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT, AND YOU KNOW, NOTHING THAT I’M TELLING YOU TODAY COULD EVER RELIEVE, I THINK, THE PAIN THAT A PARENT OR A LOVED ONE WOULD FEEL BY THEIR CHILD OR SON, DAUGHTER, OR SPOUSE, BEING MURDERED BY SOMEBODY. THIS ISN’T MEANT TO DIMINISH THAT IN ANY WAY. WE’RE MERELY TALKING ABOUT THE TREND. TALKING ABOUT THE RATE. AND THIS IS LECTURED IN FOREIGN PUBLIC POLICY.>>I CONTACTED THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE, WHO ALSO SEEMS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT IT IS TRICKY TO SORT OF PINPOINT SOME OF THE STATISTICS THAT WE’RE LOOKING FOR. HOW IS IT THAT YOU’VE BEEN ABLE TO REALLY MANAGE THIS DATA? IS IT STRICTLY USING PUBLIC SAFETY INFORMATION FROM THE STATE OF TEXAS?>>THERE’S A LOT OF LUCK, FRANKLY. I WAS, I TOOK A LOOK, I SENT FOIA REQUESTS TO EVERY SINGLE STATE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY, AND DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, ACROSS THE COUNTRY. ALL 50 STATES. EVERY ONE OF THEM, EXCEPT FOR TEXAS, RESPONDED AND SAID WE DON’T KEEP THAT INFORMATION. BUT TEXAS DID. I WAS LUCKY IN THE SENSE THAT I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO THINK OF THAT, AND DO IT.>>WHAT WAS YOUR LEVEL OF INTEREST IN IT, ALEX?>>WELL, I THINK THE ARGUMENT AROUND TOWN, AROUND NATIONAL SECURITY, AROUND PUBLIC SAFETY, ARE SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ARGUMENTS WHEN IT COMES TO DEALING WITH ILLEGAL AND UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRATION. THAT THREAT IS, OR POTENTIAL THREAT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT. THE GOVERNMENT EXISTS TO PROTECT OUR INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, AND LIBERTIES, AND IF THOSE RIGHTS ARE BEING VIOLATED, BY CRIMINALS, WHETHER THEY BE FOREIGN CRIMINALS OR DOMESTIC CRIMINALS, WE NEED TO KNOW THAT SO THE GOVERNMENT IT TRY TO MITIGATE THAT THREAT AND TRY TO DIMINISH IT. IT IS AN IMPORTANT ESSENTIAL PART OF GOVERNMENT. SO I WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THE FACTS ARE. AND I FOUND IT JUST PERPLEXING THAT FOR YEARS, DOING RESEARCH ON THE TOPIC FOR YEARS, NOBODY HAD A CLEAR ANSWER TO THIS. AND NATIONWIDE, THERE STILL ISN’T A VERY CLEAR ANSWER. WE HAVE DATA FROM ONE STATE. WE HAVE NATIONWIDE ESTIMATES OF INCARCERATION RATES. BUT THAT’S REALLY IT. WE DON’T HAVE ANY OTHER INFORMATION. SO I THINK EVERY OTHER STATE NEEDS TO GET ON THIS GAME, NEEDS TO COPY WHAT TEXAS IS DOING, AND MAKE SURE TO RECORD THE IMMIGRATION STATUSES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE CONVICTED OF CRIMES.>>ALEX, JOINING US FROM THE CATO INSTITUTE IN WASHINGTON, D.C., THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.>>YOU’RE WELCOME, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.>>>THAT’S ALL FOR NOW. THANKS FOR JOINING US. TO SHARE YOUR FEEDBACK, VISIT US ON SOCIAL MEDIA, AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

  • The Democrats want you to believe the drugs come across ports of Entry. If you were a drug dealer would you want to try and get your drugs into America where there are dozens of armed guards and drug sniffing dogs or Drive 30 miles out in the desert and walk them or drive them across?

  • That's the point it's illegal to enter area. People that cross illegally. Help them find the tunnels then maybe we won't need the wire.

  • But you can let your toddlers run across the street no worries. THAN HOW BOUT A BIG BEAUTIFUL 3O FOOT TALL WALL PAID FOR BY THE MEXICAN CLINTON CARTELS AND THE BILLIONS OF CONFISCATED US CURRENCY 💴?

  • We need to run a chain link fence parallel several feet over on the US side. One more obstacle for them bastards to cross then that gray-haired hypocrite won't have to worry about some toddlers running into the bob wire.

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